Religious Grammar of the Welfare State in Poland
Round 1
Reviewer 1 Report
The article deals with the interesting topic which is not often discussed in the scholarly literature. It has cognitive value which is well visible especially in some parts of the analysis dealing, for example, with the role of the Catholic Church in Poland in such areas as healthcare or education. It also refers to the crucial question of why the Poles reacted in the extraordinary way to the challenge of migration caused by Russian agression against Ukraine. This question is in fact the one that calls for some further in-depth research in the future.
Some selected points of the article require though some additional focus. First of all it is difficult to figure out what autor means by some crucial notions referred to in the article. What does it mean Poles-Catholic ideology? What is meant by the autor when he/she writes about Poles-Catholic narrative? Which dimension of social reality is discussed here: culture? society? politics? The author seems also to assume the reader does not need any explanation on what is meant by Catholic approach to the proper economic model. Some explanations are presented at the end of the article, while it seems they should be present in the introductory part where Catholic social doctrine regarding the topics analized should be discussed. Finally the question arises whether it is really a society that decides upon the selection of the economic model, as author suggests, or rather the political elites that in case of Poland have not always been following the teaching of the Catholic Church when proposing some social economic solutions. In this regard the article requires some more realistic approach.
Author Response
Response to Reviewer 1 Comments
Ad. Some selected points of the article require though some additional focus. First of all it is difficult to figure out what autor means by some crucial notions referred to in the article. What does it mean Poles-Catholic ideology? What is meant by the autor when he/she writes about Poles-Catholic narrative? Which dimension of social reality is discussed here: culture? society? politics? The author seems also to assume the reader does not need any explanation on what is meant by Catholic approach to the proper economic model. Some explanations are presented at the end of the article, while it seems they should be present in the introductory part where Catholic social doctrine regarding the topics analized should be discussed. Finally the question arises whether it is really a society that decides upon the selection of the economic model, as author suggests, or rather the political elites that in case of Poland have not always been following the teaching of the Catholic Church when proposing some social economic solutions. In this regard the article requires some more realistic approach.
Thank you for your review of our paper. The comments and suggestions you formulate are valuable, and we hope they will help us improve it. Below we refer to the individual comments:
The terms used in the article are described in detail in the literature we refer to and/or are confirmed by the results of sociological research.
The Polish-Catholic ideology is understood here as a sociological and religious category that combines religious, cultural, social and political spheres of life. In a sense, it contributed to the creation of a stereotypical approach to Polishness, that goes along with the Catholic religion, which is also reflected in the way the Poles are being perceived by other societies. The historical background is important here as well.
Direct decisions concerning the choice of economic model are made by the political elite. We refer to democratic societies in which the political elites in power are established by the free and equal citizens who make political decisions based on their personal beliefs. The thesis about the relationship of religious views with the perception of socio-economic reality and the preference for specific solutions is widely supported in the literature (G. Esping-Andersen, R. Titmuss, Ph. Manow, K. Gabriel, K. Koseła). If the changes go in a direction not accepted by the majority of citizens, this is reflected in the election results. The indirect role of society in making political decisions does not exclude the key role of the political elite, and this was visible in Poland after 1989.
The comments in the review made us realize that it would be more convenient for the reader to explain many phenomena, processes and events in a more extensive way, rather than referring to the publications cited in the footnotes. This inspired us to consider preparing a more extensive monograph on the topic taken up in the article.
Reviewer 2 Report
With regard to grammatical concerns, there are simple issues with capitalization and other simple grammatical mistakes that can be rectified. I am not sure what the format is of the References section, but I have never seen this structure before.
The article aspires to demonstrate the relationship between the importance of Catholicism in Poland and the development of the welfare state after 1989. The commentary is intriguing and the hypotheses are well-resourced. However, there are some issues with regard to the relationship between the Catholic Church and any support of a specific economic system.
Line 60ff initially appears to continue the argument of the support for religion in Poland, but the facts cited in lines 60ff imply the opposite.
Line 67-68 and 69-70 seem to be in contradiction with one another.
Line 107 - it may be helpful to provide some context around the Dembowski and the "Solidarity Movement."
Line 129 - how is secularization defined here? This is a crucial question as secularization can be measured in a variety of ways. Obviously, the % of self-identified Catholics in Poland (95%) has not dwindled. So, what measures are being used to argue for secularization? There are some that can be cited, such as salience, the perceived role of religion in society, church attendance, etc. The article, however, does not indicate what is meant by secularization in the society.
Line 177ff - Catholic Social Teaching does not advocate any specific economic system. The Catholic Church (via the encyclicals) supports free enterprise (vs. Communism) but it does not make recommendations other than ensuring the care for the poor and vulnerable. Catholicism certainly does not promote a theocracy.
Lines 215-216: The Church is pushed by its teachings (as seen as eternal truths) and not by trying to find ways to influence society. If the Church wanted to be "influential" and in line with changing social norms, they would have ordained women, approved contraception, and allowed divorce decades ago.
Line 329: Not all Catholics advocate for Catholic Social Teaching...as it is not part of the catechism and the Church promotes freedom of conscience in making these political and social decisions.
Lines 352-354: The Catholic Church does not advocate ANY political, social, or economic system as long as people have religious and political freedom and the ability to support themselves...as well as the principle of subsidiarity. This principle does not need to be concrete in mandated social welfare programs.
Lines 390ff: Individuals can be split in their religious affiliation and their political support since there is no one political or social system that aligns with Catholic theology and Catholic believers.
Lines 498ff: Stressing the importance of family makes good economic sense as well. It is not ONLY the influence of the Catholic Church.
The inclusion of sections 3.4 and 3.5 do not appear to support the thesis in the article. Yes, the sections are interesting and show the involvement of the Catholic Church in social growth, but they do not support the thesis that the Church influenced the economic structure of society. The conclusion puts the inclusion of these items in perspective. However, the conclusion makes claims that are not as apparent at the outset of the article. Either there needs to be a clear definition of what exactly the authors mean by the "welfare state" at the outset or the thesis needs to be tempered a bit. The Church does not advocate for one political system or another unless a system violates the freedom of religion, employment, etc. I am not sure if the claim of muted vibrancy is clearly demonstrated in the middle sections of the paper.
Author Response
Response to Reviewer 2 Comments
Thank you for your review of our paper. The comments and suggestions you formulate are valuable, and we hope they will help us improve it. Below we refer to the individual comments:
Ad. Line 60ff: initially appears to continue the argument of the support for religion in Poland, but the facts cited in lines 60ff imply the opposite.
This passage has been corrected.
Ad. Line 67-68 and 69-70 seem to be in contradiction with one another.
This passage has been corrected.
Ad. Line 107 - it may be helpful to provide some context around the Dembowski and the "Solidarity Movement."
This passage has been completed. A broader context is described in the literature cited.
Ad. Line 129 - how is secularization defined here? This is a crucial question as secularization can be measured in a variety of ways. Obviously, the % of self-identified Catholics in Poland (95%) has not dwindled. So, what measures are being used to argue for secularization? There are some that can be cited, such as salience, the perceived role of religion in society, church attendance, etc. The article, however, does not indicate what is meant by secularization in the society.
We present the phenomenon of secularization using indicators used in the sociology of religion, including participation in religious practices and social perception of religious institutions (Lines 48-77).
Ad. Line 177ff - Catholic Social Teaching does not advocate any specific economic system. The Catholic Church (via the encyclicals) supports free enterprise (vs. Communism) but it does not make recommendations other than ensuring the care for the poor and vulnerable. Catholicism certainly does not promote a theocracy.
This passage has been corrected.
Ad. Lines 215-216: The Church is pushed by its teachings (as seen as eternal truths) and not by trying to find ways to influence society. If the Church wanted to be "influential" and in line with changing social norms, they would have ordained women, approved contraception, and allowed divorce decades ago.
We agree with the remark. At this point, we present the position of the supporters of such an interpretation of muted vibrancy. The text has been modified.
Ad. Line 329: Not all Catholics advocate for Catholic Social Teaching...as it is not part of the catechism and the Church promotes freedom of conscience in making these political and social decisions.
We meant the basic principles of Catholic social teaching, also present in the catechism. The text has been corrected.
Ad. Lines 352-354: The Catholic Church does not advocate ANY political, social, or economic system as long as people have religious and political freedom and the ability to support themselves...as well as the principle of subsidiarity. This principle does not need to be concrete in mandated social welfare programs.
We are referring here to the convictions of Polish society about solidarity and subsidiarity. The text has been modified.
Ad. Lines 390ff: Individuals can be split in their religious affiliation and their political support since there is no one political or social system that aligns with Catholic theology and Catholic believers.
We agree with the remark. We describe the process that took place - without valuing it.
Ad. Lines 498ff: Stressing the importance of family makes good economic sense as well. It is not ONLY the influence of the Catholic Church.
We agree with the remark.
Ad. The inclusion of sections 3.4 and 3.5 do not appear to support the thesis in the article. Yes, the sections are interesting and show the involvement of the Catholic Church in social growth, but they do not support the thesis that the Church influenced the economic structure of society. The conclusion puts the inclusion of these items in perspective. However, the conclusion makes claims that are not as apparent at the outset of the article. Either there needs to be a clear definition of what exactly the authors mean by the "welfare state" at the outset or the thesis needs to be tempered a bit. The Church does not advocate for one political system or another unless a system violates the freedom of religion, employment, etc. I am not sure if the claim of muted vibrancy is clearly demonstrated in the middle sections of the paper.
In sections 3.4 and 3.5 we show that, in a sense, the Church offers an alternative (as in the case of education) or makes up for the shortcomings of the system offered by the state to mitigate some of the effects of the functioning of the market.
The comments in the review made us realize that it would be more convenient for the reader to explain many phenomena, processes and events in a more extensive way, rather than referring to the publications cited in the footnotes. This inspired us to consider preparing a more extensive monograph on the topic taken up in the article.
Reviewer 3 Report
Well done! I believed you would ignore Poland's contemporary religious reality, particularly among young people. Nice surprise to learn otherwise.
118: Needs reference
200: Child abuse crisis?
252: what year was this?
you intermix Covid-19 at times. It can be distracting.
Can you find more timely references? What you have is good, but I believe the reality you are discussing other scholars also are.
Author Response
Response to Reviewer 3 Comments
Thank you for your review of our paper. Comments and suggestions are valuable and we hope they will help us improve it. Below we refer to the individual comments:
Ad. 118: Needs reference.
Thank you for your remarks. The footnote has been completed.
Ad. 200: Child abuse crisis?
Thank you for your remark. The text has been completed.
Ad. 252: what year was this?
Thank you for your remark. The text has been completed.
Ad. you intermix Covid-19 at times. It can be distracting.
We have included several references to Covid-19 in the text. They referred to indicators of religious practice and, above all, to the health sector. The pandemic has become a factor that forced an increase in spending on this field. This fact is also an important background for the functioning of Catholic institutions in this sphere.
Ad. Can you find more timely references? What you have is good, but I believe the reality you are discussing other scholars also are.
The comments in the review made us realize that it would be more convenient for the reader to explain many phenomena, processes and events in a more extensive way. This inspired us to consider preparing a more extensive monograph on the topic taken up in the article.
Round 2
Reviewer 2 Report
Thank you for the detailed response to all the comments.
